WITH
MARK BLETCHER
OLIVER HOFFMEISTER
ABI HAMPSEY
RECORDED @
NEWBRIDGE STUDIOS,
NEWCASTLE
23/01/2020
TOTAL TIME:
11 MINUTES
49 SECONDS
MARK BLETCHER
OLIVER HOFFMEISTER
ABI HAMPSEY
RECORDED @
NEWBRIDGE STUDIOS,
NEWCASTLE
23/01/2020
TOTAL TIME:
11 MINUTES
49 SECONDS
Image: Paper Dolls, People Hands, 2020, Oil and gouache on Canvas, 70x35, Abi Hampsey.
Abi…
...What are we looking at?
Oil and gouache on stretched
canvas.
Does that painting have a title, or any other external context?
This painting is called Paper Dolls, People Hands and is the first small painting (insert laughter here) I have done in a while. This painting aims to display the multiple ways in which we can tell stories. Representing this through the literal reproduction of the objects such as puppets and indexical signs such as the frame. Hoping to demonstrate the power story telling has to transcend language, culture and time. Whether I am in fact achieving this and not just obscuring these objects inherent effectiveness I am unsure.
Why did you choose this painting for discussion?
I feel like I am trying to convey and push my two main avenues of inquiry in this painting; storytelling and the manipulation of oil paint. After working on a large scale, this is the first properly considered painting for some time, and I wanted to allow my interest and instincts to come through. As this painting isn’t yet complete and I do have a deadline approaching for a show in April, I wanted to bring it to discussion to get some feedback on where I’m at and where to go. Am I getting across what I’m aiming to get across? Help me get out of my head!
Abi…
...What are we looking at?
Oil and gouache on stretched
canvas.
Does that painting have a title, or any other external context?
This painting is called Paper Dolls, People Hands and is the first small painting (insert laughter here) I have done in a while. This painting aims to display the multiple ways in which we can tell stories. Representing this through the literal reproduction of the objects such as puppets and indexical signs such as the frame. Hoping to demonstrate the power story telling has to transcend language, culture and time. Whether I am in fact achieving this and not just obscuring these objects inherent effectiveness I am unsure.
Why did you choose this painting for discussion?
I feel like I am trying to convey and push my two main avenues of inquiry in this painting; storytelling and the manipulation of oil paint. After working on a large scale, this is the first properly considered painting for some time, and I wanted to allow my interest and instincts to come through. As this painting isn’t yet complete and I do have a deadline approaching for a show in April, I wanted to bring it to discussion to get some feedback on where I’m at and where to go. Am I getting across what I’m aiming to get across? Help me get out of my head!
00:01
Mark
Can you prime us again, give us the footnotes on your introduction?
Abi
It’s called “Paper Dolls, People Hands”. It is the first “small” painting I have done in about a year. I’m interested in modes of storytelling and I won’t say much more because I want to see if that comes across or not.
Oliver
Is there anything you want us to particularly look at? Is there something you would like to get out of this?
Abi
Generally, I don’t really like talking about subject matter. However, I think this one, maybe yes, but more like is it materially working? Is paint being put down properly? I’m more interested in that, because it’s not finished.
Mark
Where is the gouache?
Abi
The border.
Can you prime us again, give us the footnotes on your introduction?
Abi
It’s called “Paper Dolls, People Hands”. It is the first “small” painting I have done in about a year. I’m interested in modes of storytelling and I won’t say much more because I want to see if that comes across or not.
Oliver
Is there anything you want us to particularly look at? Is there something you would like to get out of this?
Abi
Generally, I don’t really like talking about subject matter. However, I think this one, maybe yes, but more like is it materially working? Is paint being put down properly? I’m more interested in that, because it’s not finished.
Mark
Where is the gouache?
Abi
The border.
01:18
Mark
Oh okay, that makes sense.
Abi
It just dried a lot faster.
Mark
How is this painting small?
Abi
What’s that thing that we did one time? Measurement is an abstract concept? Everything is in relation to something else.
Oliver
Yeah, scale and size.
Abi
If you say it’s eight foot then that’s just feet, and then a foot is however many something else - and something else - and something else...
Oliver
Smaller in relation to your other work.
Abi
Yes. Big in relation to you guys’ work. Small in relation to other work of mine in the past.
Oh okay, that makes sense.
Abi
It just dried a lot faster.
Mark
How is this painting small?
Abi
What’s that thing that we did one time? Measurement is an abstract concept? Everything is in relation to something else.
Oliver
Yeah, scale and size.
Abi
If you say it’s eight foot then that’s just feet, and then a foot is however many something else - and something else - and something else...
Oliver
Smaller in relation to your other work.
Abi
Yes. Big in relation to you guys’ work. Small in relation to other work of mine in the past.
02:20
Oliver
I’m a real big fan of the top of the painting. Real big fan of the like limbs that are polka dotted on it and all this embellishment like the arms and you can see the sort of drawing and everything like that. Big fan, love the colours.
This to me seems like it needs more work. It just seems like there’s almost two different paintings on the same painting. It seems like you’ve spent much more time doing this top part compared to the bottom and not in terms of composition. It seems like you’ve laboured more over the top than you have over the bottom whether it’s because you’re happy with the bottom or you’ve struggled with something at the top. I’m not entirely sure?
It’s noticeable as I stand back. I have to admit, I really like these like feet. I like feet. Don’t take that out of context.
Abi
We all like feet. We are all here for the feet.
I’m a real big fan of the top of the painting. Real big fan of the like limbs that are polka dotted on it and all this embellishment like the arms and you can see the sort of drawing and everything like that. Big fan, love the colours.
This to me seems like it needs more work. It just seems like there’s almost two different paintings on the same painting. It seems like you’ve spent much more time doing this top part compared to the bottom and not in terms of composition. It seems like you’ve laboured more over the top than you have over the bottom whether it’s because you’re happy with the bottom or you’ve struggled with something at the top. I’m not entirely sure?
It’s noticeable as I stand back. I have to admit, I really like these like feet. I like feet. Don’t take that out of context.
Abi
We all like feet. We are all here for the feet.
03:20
Mark
When you say it’s not finished, is it the whole painting or is it the bottom bit?
Abi
Yeah its very much this (the lower part). I think what it is, I’ve drawn this and when I drew it it’s just in pen. So this top, but I’ve got no idea what it’s going to transpire into. Whereas this, I drew it and was like “that’s what it’s going to look like”... Which is always a problem. If you know what it’s going to look like, it’s not going to look good. It’s never gonna be what you think it’s gonna be. If you don’t let it progress then it’s just going to be shit. It only gets good when you do it wrong.
Mark
Yeah, the top is really playful. The little dots are great little colour combinations; with the pink on the green. With most of your work as well, it’s so illustrative but paint-y which is really hard to do nicely. These little stars are very paint-y but they’re outlined so they’re very illustrative. It does seem to have a sense of depth but even though it is super illustrative and flat which is cool.
(…)
Oliver
For me, it’s the layering which reminds me of the Byzantine era when they have, like, card decks instead of having depth they just had figures behind figures and that’s sort of like these limbs put on there are slowly working their way back. That sort of depth comes across naturally.
When you say it’s not finished, is it the whole painting or is it the bottom bit?
Abi
Yeah its very much this (the lower part). I think what it is, I’ve drawn this and when I drew it it’s just in pen. So this top, but I’ve got no idea what it’s going to transpire into. Whereas this, I drew it and was like “that’s what it’s going to look like”... Which is always a problem. If you know what it’s going to look like, it’s not going to look good. It’s never gonna be what you think it’s gonna be. If you don’t let it progress then it’s just going to be shit. It only gets good when you do it wrong.
Mark
Yeah, the top is really playful. The little dots are great little colour combinations; with the pink on the green. With most of your work as well, it’s so illustrative but paint-y which is really hard to do nicely. These little stars are very paint-y but they’re outlined so they’re very illustrative. It does seem to have a sense of depth but even though it is super illustrative and flat which is cool.
(…)
Oliver
For me, it’s the layering which reminds me of the Byzantine era when they have, like, card decks instead of having depth they just had figures behind figures and that’s sort of like these limbs put on there are slowly working their way back. That sort of depth comes across naturally.
04:50
Mark
You can see like three different depths.
Oliver
Like a diorama almost. I like the motif of the star because it contextualizes the dots for me. Not so much with the other ones it’s more the pink dots that the stars contextualise it and makes them much more like outer worldly rather than just dots.
Mark
I think I get the title now. “Paper Dolls, People Hands” so if it’s in like little segments it’s like paper bits hanging? Yeah. Kind of...
Abi
Kind of.
Mark
Like a diorama of little paper bits being controlled.
Abi
Did you ever have a paper doll?
Mark
Na, I don’t know what a paper doll is.
Abi
It would come with a head, two arms, a body, two legs and you would cut them out and pin holes in them. Then they would stick together and they would come in a sheet.
You can see like three different depths.
Oliver
Like a diorama almost. I like the motif of the star because it contextualizes the dots for me. Not so much with the other ones it’s more the pink dots that the stars contextualise it and makes them much more like outer worldly rather than just dots.
Mark
I think I get the title now. “Paper Dolls, People Hands” so if it’s in like little segments it’s like paper bits hanging? Yeah. Kind of...
Abi
Kind of.
Mark
Like a diorama of little paper bits being controlled.
Abi
Did you ever have a paper doll?
Mark
Na, I don’t know what a paper doll is.
Abi
It would come with a head, two arms, a body, two legs and you would cut them out and pin holes in them. Then they would stick together and they would come in a sheet.
06:01
Oliver
Like a shadow puppet?
Abi
Yeah well that’s what that is. Here.
Mark
Got it.
Abi
So they’re different ways of objects or modes that we used to tell stories, like shadows or dolls. Can you see the figure?
Oliver
Yeah. Feet, bum, going all the way up. Sort of hair round there.
Abi
Gets it in one!
Mark
I see like bits of a figure, but a whole figure together?
Abi
Boob, hand, faces, hand.
Mark
Foot, bum, faces and two hands but this bit sort of disappears for me. That’s fine, like, I don’t mind.
Oliver
The figure is ever present but it’s not present when you have to look for it. I think that subtlety works nicely because to me the main bit that’s interesting is these limbs. These floating limbs, the more you look at it it almost coerces you do go deeper.
I noticed from the feet then I went up and was like “Ah!” and then I went up and saw the head at the top and thought that was very interesting.
Whereas before the first thing I noticed was this sort of embellished hand pointing off into the distance and things like this.
Like a shadow puppet?
Abi
Yeah well that’s what that is. Here.
Mark
Got it.
Abi
So they’re different ways of objects or modes that we used to tell stories, like shadows or dolls. Can you see the figure?
Oliver
Yeah. Feet, bum, going all the way up. Sort of hair round there.
Abi
Gets it in one!
Mark
I see like bits of a figure, but a whole figure together?
Abi
Boob, hand, faces, hand.
Mark
Foot, bum, faces and two hands but this bit sort of disappears for me. That’s fine, like, I don’t mind.
Oliver
The figure is ever present but it’s not present when you have to look for it. I think that subtlety works nicely because to me the main bit that’s interesting is these limbs. These floating limbs, the more you look at it it almost coerces you do go deeper.
I noticed from the feet then I went up and was like “Ah!” and then I went up and saw the head at the top and thought that was very interesting.
Whereas before the first thing I noticed was this sort of embellished hand pointing off into the distance and things like this.
06:48
Mark
I think you said, that it’s meant to tell a story this work, but usually you don’t have like a narrative behind your paintings but this one has a narrative behind it?
Abi
No, normally I make paintings based on existing narratives combined with my own narratives or memories. Whereas this is me trying my hardest not to associate with a specific narrative. More so to relate with the objects and devices we use to tell stories, here there is no story, but again I’m kind of lying because there is a person in this image.
Mark
It works a lot better because rather than having the story that you’re trying to tell through things, it’s telling a story about the objects so the things in the painting have as story or a history to them. Like the shadow puppet or paper doll, it’s like a story of what they do rather than “this is the one paper doll who did this thing”.
Abi
Exactly. It’s more holistic. There’s more to play with in that way. I always split the canvas into sections, whether that is physically with more than one canvas or with borders and frames. It makes more sense to do that when you’re talking about modes of telling.
Oliver
It reminds me of a comic book, as a reader in the past. I’m trying to find a way of fitting that into mine because it’s an interesting way of splitting paintings and it works very well here especially how it’s splitting up the figure as well.
I think you said, that it’s meant to tell a story this work, but usually you don’t have like a narrative behind your paintings but this one has a narrative behind it?
Abi
No, normally I make paintings based on existing narratives combined with my own narratives or memories. Whereas this is me trying my hardest not to associate with a specific narrative. More so to relate with the objects and devices we use to tell stories, here there is no story, but again I’m kind of lying because there is a person in this image.
Mark
It works a lot better because rather than having the story that you’re trying to tell through things, it’s telling a story about the objects so the things in the painting have as story or a history to them. Like the shadow puppet or paper doll, it’s like a story of what they do rather than “this is the one paper doll who did this thing”.
Abi
Exactly. It’s more holistic. There’s more to play with in that way. I always split the canvas into sections, whether that is physically with more than one canvas or with borders and frames. It makes more sense to do that when you’re talking about modes of telling.
Oliver
It reminds me of a comic book, as a reader in the past. I’m trying to find a way of fitting that into mine because it’s an interesting way of splitting paintings and it works very well here especially how it’s splitting up the figure as well.
08:58
Abi
It’s always good to give yourself rules and by doing that you give yourself a rule of, for example, “in this top panel you can’t use red” anything like that, something that throws you off. That’s why in this panel it’s going wrong. I haven't done that. I copied what I drew and it’s crap because I haven’t constrained it. I’ve not allowed it to progress.
Oliver
The text, the red, is that going to continue there or is that just a reminder to yourself? ‘This is the red bit.’
Abi
I drew that on the sketch and I liked it on there so I might like it when I revise it, but currently it just doesn’t suit the painting.
Oliver
That’s the one thing that is a bit of a sore point.
Mark
Text on a painting is so strong, like eyes on a painting, text on a painting just draws your eyes towards and it you can’t stop focusing on it.
Oliver
Especially if you’re wanting to look at objects of storytelling.
Abi
Without using words…
(...how are we doing for time?)
It’s always good to give yourself rules and by doing that you give yourself a rule of, for example, “in this top panel you can’t use red” anything like that, something that throws you off. That’s why in this panel it’s going wrong. I haven't done that. I copied what I drew and it’s crap because I haven’t constrained it. I’ve not allowed it to progress.
Oliver
The text, the red, is that going to continue there or is that just a reminder to yourself? ‘This is the red bit.’
Abi
I drew that on the sketch and I liked it on there so I might like it when I revise it, but currently it just doesn’t suit the painting.
Oliver
That’s the one thing that is a bit of a sore point.
Mark
Text on a painting is so strong, like eyes on a painting, text on a painting just draws your eyes towards and it you can’t stop focusing on it.
Oliver
Especially if you’re wanting to look at objects of storytelling.
Abi
Without using words…
(...how are we doing for time?)
10:51
Recording Ends